Hi all
A certain lurker has asked that I talk about PvP or Player vs Player for the uninitiated. Actually he requested a rant. Now, I'm all for a good rant about stuff but in this case a rant is not exactly warranted. The reason is that I'm not opposed to PvP in all circumstances.
PvP is a contentious issue. Some people love it, some people hate it. Now before I begin to outline my views I must say that generally I think it's not the done thing. In fact, it sucks. Losing your character isn't nice but to lose it to another PC is even worse. It means that someone has taken the conscious decision to end your character. It's not a monster, it's not a bad roll or an unfortunate mobbing in LARP, it's personal.
That's not to say it's always unwarranted. I have done it once or twice but the key to all those instances is that they were the culmination of months and months of events. For me it is the weapon of last resort, the DEFCON 1 of gaming and it should never be taken lightly. In all the instances of PvP I have ever participated in severe provocation was the cause.
What I do have a problem with is casual PvP. Mrs Camelot got killed at a LARP by a group that found it amusing to kill people's characters for no legitimate reason. Oh they said that it was to do with the background of the group and their IC religion demanded it but that was just stuff they had made up to justify being a douche. Just because it's in your character background doesn't mean it's warranted. Mrs Camelot was in tears because she lost a character she loved in the lowest, most pointless way possible.
This is one of my problems with "player led" LARP's. The essence of drama is conflict. So if no conflict is forthcoming from the plot players will manufacture it. Players will kill other players for something to do. If I lose a character I want it to be for a reason not because some nasty scumbag is bored.
Your resident psychopath
Fall of Camelot
Ah, you pummelling the shit out of Charlie.... good times :D
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to step in and represent the [Aga Pushpops] on this one. This scenario in particular is indicative of just how much taste affects play.
ReplyDeleteThe game in question is a fest and has always been unequivocally PvP. This was not a gatepost "ganking", these guys had been part of the fabric of the game for years and I know them to be excellent roleplayers, some of which are instrumental in the running of some very successful games.
They also killed my character that same night and for me it was the best roleplaying experience of the entire weekend, which was otherwise abyssmal. The [Aga Pushpops] fed me homemade curry, we talked about philosophy and religion with many other people at their table and it was my character's choice to go into their tent and make an offering. They weren't forcing anyone's hand. When my character was killed, they thanked me for the experience, assured me that all future characters would be immune and invited me to join them anytime for curry, either as one of them or as a future character.
For me, that was the most pleasant PvP character death experience I've ever had. I was really angry to hear that later that event, someone else (not Mrs. Camelot) took their character death so personally that they actually became physically aggressive OOC and then metagamed to get the [Aga Pushpops] rolled.
I'm totally against the concept of "ganking" or PvP for the sake of PvP but in this case, I don't think the [Aga Pushpops] did anything wrong. In fact, I think they did everything right.
I know Mrs. Camelot took this very personally but consider it from the other side. Collectively, the [Aga Pushpops] had all put in a massive effort to provide a great roleplaying environment. They had their own encampment, the food (I really cannot stress how good their curry was!), the set dressing, the costumes. All of that was lost from the game because someone couldn't take the death of their character and then cheated to get their own back 8(
Anyway, onto PvP
I think it's important to understand that PvP does not just mean killing other people's characters. The essence of drama is conflict and there are many degrees to it. I agree that ordinarily, death by party member is a last resort. However, sometimes conflict will split the party and this can lead to some really interesting interaction. This happened recently in my Vampire game, I gave the players a choice of allying with one of two princes vying for control of Sarajevo, they split right down the middle. This would screw an adventure party but I expect my players to get creative, rather than just try and kill the other half. It's that conflict which becomes the focus of the game, rather than two dusty Elder fossils maneuvering for praxis.
A character death for a character you had played for a few hours as opposed to a character death for a character you had been playing for well over a year is two entirely different things.
ReplyDeleteThese guys were killing other people's characters for fun in a system that is not primarily PvP. They were getting their own amusement by totally screwing over other people and killing characters in the shittiest way imaginable.
That wasn't good roleplaying it's called being an asshole.
If your "roleplaying" causes multiple people anger and causes people to burst into tears you are doing it wrong. These people were not good roleplayers they were assholes.
This isn't about my character, I'm just sticking up for guys I know IRL who are not as you say they are. I'm as protective over my friends as you are over Mrs. Camelot.
ReplyDeleteI experienced what happened firsthand as I was eating at the same table at the same time. Many others were there who didn't get sacrificed because they chose not to make an offering and still had a great time. The sacrifices were a ref sanctioned IC process and it was fairly obvious that the group were probably a little bit dodgy, since they all looked like the Thugee Cult from Indiana Jones.
What killed both mine and Mrs. Camelot's characters off was basically the same thing, that being we were too nice. Similarly in Maelstrom, it's common knowledge that you don't walk around late at night unarmed or accept the invite from The Flies to "meet their mummy".
This kind of thing is quite common for the large PvP fests so you have to accept that it is part of that kind of game. The game we were on is quite clearly PvP, factions meet up to battle each other every main event and entire camps have been rolled.
Ok first off CP is not a PvP system in the main. The factions do not battle each other but rather NPC's played by half the player base. Camps do not get rolled there, you are thinking of LT.
ReplyDeleteSecondly I am calling this as I see it. The facts are indisputable
1) This group consciously went out to kill other PC's in a low and underhanded manner.
2) This upset Mrs Camelot to the point that she could no longer play the system.
I don't care if there was music, conversation and food. It's still a dick move.
They could have had all of this great roleplaying without killing off PC's. Yet they chose to kill people. There is no reason to do this so I must conclude that these people wanted to kill others because it entertained them.
The fact is that their entertainment ruined an entire system for another player. They made Mrs Camelot cry and anyone who makes Mrs Camelot cry is an asshole. I say it as I see it.